Apprentice VI

Hey Stephanie, cute “Will Work for Shoes” shirt. Do you think anyone has ever tried to pay her in shoes? And what kind of “work” are we talking about here? I mean, for the right job, I can probably hook her up with a nice pair of Steve Madden’s. (Wink-wink, nudge-nudge, catcall, purring)

(That’s right, I said Steve Madden’s. I know my fashion. Deal with it.)

Wow, did Alex give Stephanie an awkward hug. It’s how you would hug a Leper, if it had AIDS, I’d imagine.

On a scale of one to Carolyn, this Jill woman sucks.

Tara just said she was project manager because she “understands Harlem.” I don’t want to play the race card or anything, but that’s like me doing an ad in Beverly Hills and saying I should be project manager because I “understand Beverly Hills.”

I love Audrey. I’m going to try to not go on about how hot she is, but it’s kind of like Dickie V not talking about a Diaper Dandy. It just ain’t gonna happen.

“Someone with an afro, waving them on.” Yes, I’d agree that’s what we all want to see. And since we want to appeal to the “urban” feel, I bet Tara wants to throw on a basketball jersey, a gold grill and put 23 inch rims on the car. This is blatant. She sucks.

Alex is smart. Going around and seeing what the people like. Well played. I can’t believe they didn’t want some metaphor for the revitalization of Harlem. It’s unfeasible!

That was kind of a dick move by Trump to just roll by and not stop. It’s not like he went by inconspicuously either. He rolled by in a limo! Who else in Harlem is going to roll by in a limo? I’d be pissed.

How can Tara go in there and blame anyone but herself? It was like she did the task herself. Everything was her idea, and she had final say. Horribleness.

Audrey did tell Tara about the other courses (I know I had fake TiVo) but she’s so set in her ways she wouldn’t listen to Moses if he told her what to do.

I don’t think demeaningful is a word. But if Audrey wants to use it, I’m sure as hell not going to stop her. Do you think they can switch the name of the show to Audrey!?

Why didn’t Tara bring Fat Vince Vaughn into the boardroom? That doesn’t really make any sense. Seems a bit vindictive to me. Maybe if she would have taken John back in, she wouldn’t be sent home. Ahhh well, live and learn.

No horse jokes this week. Sorry to disappoint.

My prediction for a winner after week 6: Still Kendra. Again, Audrey is smoking. Though this meltdown in the commercials does not look promising. Alex did a great job and he’s on my leader board now, as he’s been creeping up for weeks.

Why I hate Reggie Fowler...

There are three kinds of truths in this world...

Truths
Half-Truths
Reggie Fowler Truths (aka...lies)

What is the deal with this guy? Let's count down what he has told the media since he took over as "owner" of the Vikings a week ago.

1. He played in the NFL (He played in the NFL as much as Ricky Martin has played in the NFL)

2. He played collge football (in fact, he had as many plays on the field as I did in college)

3. He played in the Little League World Series (Seriously? Why would you lie about that? Does that impress anyone? Next thing you know, he's going to be saying how he was on the Walter Mondale campaign)

4. He's not trading Randy Moss (yet, all of the sudden, Moss is a Raider. Sweet)

Why does he keep lying like this? It's like he's turned into Tommy Flanagan.

"No, I've not had enough dessert...er...I mean, I'm not going to trade Moss...Yeah, that's the ticket!"

Here are some other things he's probably going to lead us to believe over the coming weeks and months...

• He invented the internet, not Al Gore.
• He was the fifth Beatle, but they kicked him out for "not being British enough."
• He helped found N.W.A. but they kicked him out for "being too British."
• He was on the grassy knoll.
• He was the original Buckwheat, before it got all "political."
• He invented pants.
• Soup was his idea.

Here's one thing I hope he utters in the next week or so...

"I have every intention of moving the Vikings out of Minnesota."

At least then we'll know the team will stay put for a long, long time...

Why Ketch was in Vegas...

Petredis: Ketchum is back! He asked Billy if it would be OK if he came to LV, and SLEEP IN BILLY’S CAR!!!!! What is that? How can I say no? And not cause him to commit suicide?

Nelson: Wow. Wow. In the car? Wow. This is unbelievable! Would you ever ask that? Seriously?

"Can I come, and while you sleep in a luxurious bed, maybe I can sleep in your car? And then, when you're done with your lunch McDonald's, maybe I can eat the pickle you don't like and possibly lick the ketchup/mustard runoff from the wrapper and maybe take a couple of bag fries and suck what's left of your soft drink from the straw."

Wow. I can't fathom this. This is the most insane thing I have ever heard. I feel like that guy in Scanners. Pretty soon, someone is going to come get me to do a commission report and all they'll find is my lifeless body…headless. The only remnants of my head will be the bits and pieces scattered willy-nilly on the walls and computer screen. Wow. Is this for real? I feel like I just got pushed through the car wash with no car, and while I'm squeaky clean, I'm a little confused about how life works and the lengths people will go. Am I the only sane one left? Can I ramble on anymore? The car? Really? Is that the saddest thing you've ever heard? It's the saddest thing I've ever heard. And I once heard of a puppy that got shot by Jeffrey Dahmer while he was raping a dead body. But perhaps I've said too much...

Petredis: I know, I mean, can you make yourself look more, sad/desperate/loserific than by saying that? And texting it no less. I mean, now we have to see him after we told him no, and he guilted his way back in with the saddest text message.......ever.

Nelson: Did you read the Sports Guy about how his friends will be at a blackjack table, cracking jokes and some guy they don't know will inevitably try to fit in their group? Can someone from the group do that? Could that be Ketchum? Here we go, from the SG:

14. The guy who tries to ingratiate himself with you and your buddies
This happens to me and the Sports Guy Posse every year. Whenever we play blackjack together, we're always cracking jokes and making fun of each other ... within a few hours, three or four running jokes emerge that take precedent for the rest of our trip.

For instance, this year we started comparing blackjack dealers to baseball pitchers. Have you ever noticed how the pit boss will always send over his most unfriendly, non-American dealer whenever the entire table is winning? It's uncanny. Anyway, within a few hours on Friday, we started calling this dealer the "closer"; by Sunday, it had evolved to the point that we would win a few hands in a row and start making jokes of the "Uh-oh, the pit boss just started warming up Mariano Rivera in the Asian Gaming Room" variety. Anyway, whenever this happens, there's always some sad sack at the table who starts giving off those "I wish I was friends with you guys" vibes and starts trying to make those same jokes. Just go away. Please.

Can someone in your own group be that guy? Because it's sounding like Ketch is going to be him...

Petredis: If you think for one minute that that person won't not be Ketch. Then you're wrong.

It is going to be awkward city Saturday when he shows up, and I will be the mayor. But hey, what’s a bachelor party without some guy who was not invited, was specifically told he couldn't come, but asked he if could come anyway and sleep in the car, showing up and ruining everything? I can't fucking wait. Extra Spicy.

Nelson: Ahh...the spiciness factor. On the Spice Scale...this is probably somewhere around atomic. You know, mild, medium, hot, super hot, lava, death, atomic. It's the way it goes.

But seriously, if people were making that much of a push to not have you come, wouldn't you not wanna go? I have a feeling he's going to backpack me while I'm there. He's either going to hate me or backpack me. Either way, it's going to be uncomfortable. So I have that to look forward to, which is nice.

Does he not have friends to hang with in Cali? Wouldn't he want to go to LV with them some weekend? I know you don't really remember him, but he's creepy as hell. Here's what he's going to do. It's a little move I like to pull on the ladies. It's called the "Stare and Creep". You stare at them, and stare, until they get uncomfortable and say to their friend "Why is that guy staring at me. It's really creepy". This is a perfectly acceptable mating ritual between a guy and a girl. It's just that he does it between a dude and a dude. And not in the fun "we're friends, I'm gonna 'stare and creep' you to make you uncomfortable" way. And there's a problem with that. There are only two rules to a "stare and creep":

1. You don't "stare and creep" people you know. You just talk to them.
2. You don't "stare and creep" a dude, unless you're doing it on purpose, to make him uncomfortable and increase your own laughter.

And he's breaking both rules. This is unacceptable. It really deserves a punch to the neck or spitballs shot at you. At best, you need to be shot. I am not happy about this. Not happy about this turn of events. But at least I'll make fun of him behind his back, which is what I'm good at.

Conversation II...

Brent: How hard would it be to get tickets to Wrigley for you? Easy or super easy?

Eric: It would depend on whether or not a game was being played.

Brent: What if a game was not being played, but I wanted to re-create the movie "Rookie of the Year" only using monkeys and midgets?

Eric: Well, I think that you would have to buy tickets for everyone involved (perhaps discounted due to tiny stature or simian nature), but they would probably be cheap and relatively plentiful if no actual game were being played. Of course, I assume that tickets are printed every day regardless of whether or not an event is taking place.

Brent: You would have to think so. I was thinking of getting Mr. Jangles to play the role of the kid from “American Pie”. I think he can handle it. I think the rest of the Cubs will also be monkeys, because I think monkeys should be the underdogs, don't you? I mean seriously, who's going to win in a fight, monkeys or midgets?

Eric: Depends on what kind of monkey (and what kind of midget for that matter). Monkeys can be pretty mean and rabid (so can midgets for that matter). In conclusion, neither group would be a match for a shark riding on an elephant's back, just trampling and eating everything they see.

Brent: While I concur with your shark assessment (especially if they have some sort of glo-gun that sends radioactive pulses from their heads), it is hard to control the shark. Now, I assume the shark would be wearing some sort of seatbelt contraption so the he doesn't fall off the elephant and perhaps injure it, thereby stopping time and causing all of the world's chocolate to simultaneously combust. I'm correct in this assumption, right?

Eric: There's some sort of fastening device, obviously. I envisioned bungee cords but am willing to be flexible. However, I know little about the physics behind the mighty chocolate conflagration of which you speak.

Brent: First, allow me to explain the glo-gun. It sends radioactive pulses from the wearers’ brain out into space, until it hits something. This renders the target temporarily immobile. This would normally be the time for scavenging his wallet (if you're a midget), eating him (if you're a shark) or throwing your own feces at him (again, if you're a midget). Now, if the shark was wearing this and fell off the elephant, his glo-gun would hit the elephant, who would fall over, creating an earthquake, which will stop all the chocolate machines at the same time, but the machines would start trying to move faster to produce more chocolate. Hence, the combustion. Questions?

Eric: Well, I know that! I guess we have different definitions of "spontaneously combust"...or "chocolate"...or both...I'm not really sure.

Brent: Yeah, the definition for "chocolate" is really a slippery slope that only Larry Flynt and Stephen Hawking should discuss...whilst they're having wheelchair races, of course.

Eric: My money is on Flynt. I assume he has spikes on his wheels like old-timey chariots. Of course all bets are off if the Hawk utilizes a wormhole!

Brent: I think Flynt is way too smart for Hawking in wheelchair racing. What's Hawk gonna do, diagram a cosmos model that has four cluster idioms located in single Socratic organism? Puh-lease!!

Vegas Quotes...

“Bettington still sucks, right?” – Petredis to me, after Urban was getting friendly with an Asian poker player nicknamed Karl Bettington, for his aggressive betting style.

“Should I hit on this?” – Ketchum, looking at a 3 and a 4 while the dealer had a queen showing.

“How many times have you seen a seven beat a face in Blackjack?” – Justin to Ketchum after the previous question.

“That is the luckiest kid in the world.” – Justin to Ketchem, after he split 7’s, got a 4 and a 10 on the first hand and a 5 and a 9 on the second hand.

“I don’t want to jinx the table karma, but how are you doing?” – Justin to the table, right before his downward plummet into Blackjack hell.

“I didn’t stay up all night to not go to a strip club!” – Keith, at 9 o’clock Sunday morning, while yelling at Petredis in the Bally’s poker room.

“I hear they have a sweet breakfast buffet.” – Me, in response to Keith

“I just had like 8 gin and Squirts.” - Bill, right before Petredis called him on it by showing about two shots taken out of the bottle.

“That looks terrible” – Justin to Petredis, describing what he thought was a piece of chocolate cake, but was in fact a beef tip.

“Come on Petredis, walk down the aisle.” – Alex to Petredis, trying to get him to strut his stuff in the aisle of the restaurant

“It’s only been 3 minutes.” – Keith to Petredis, after 20 minutes, letting Trete know how much time till he could drink water to win the Tabasco contest.

“Did you come to deal or to baby sit us?” – Keith, to Blackjack dealer Carol, when she came to the empty table we were all sitting around.

“Baby sit.” – Carol, to Keith on the previous question.

“I just cheated in blackjack.” – Petredis, to me, after doubling his bet on a blackjack, while the dealer wasn’t looking.

“I totally played it like it was my money.” – Petredis, to me, after losing $100 of Urban’s money in two hands of No Limit.

“I almost died tonight!” – Ketchum to Petredis

“I wish you had.” – Petredis to Ketchum, in response to the previous statement.

Ahhhh….Vegas. Spicy.

Apprentice V

Wow, that Audrey has some little mouth on her. I like it. Not swearing in the boardroom and then bringing the thunder in the suite. That’s the professional way to do it. Some people may call her a raging, psychotic bitch. I call her spirited; a powder keg. And once her divorce goes thorough…hey, hey!!

So the only thing that separates Michael and Trump is a few billion dollars? Did you hear that Michael and Trump both only date Eastern European girls? Michael does it exclusively! The only difference, of course, is that Trump doesn’t have to use “Brides ‘R’ Us: Mail-Order Bride Service” that Michael does. And why do they keep leaving him once he brings them over? Could it be his overwhelming ego? Or the mysterious odor that emanates from his armpits? I’m just sayin’…

Why, when Rhona calls them about the task at hand, are they sometimes in their underwear and sometimes all dolled up with make-up on and a snappy business suit? It’s because some people know the value of “face-time” and some people don’t. It’s valuable, like Easter eggs on Easter Sunday. Use it.

Has anyone else noticed that The Apprentice is actually the show: It’s Good to be: Donald Trump”, but it has the twist of a “game” on it? Helicopters, limos, buildings…and, oh yeah, I guess there’s a job involved in the end. Savvy. Trump understands “face-time”.

Mr. Ed as project manager? Yes!!

Massage-a-go-go? Really? Why did Michael keep saying different things “a-go-go”? Like sushi a –go-go? Does he have some rare form of Tourette’s? Was he dropped on his head recently? Maybe that same piece of “ceiling” that fell on Omarosa, also hit Michael in the head?

I like how Michael got the very important (and spicy) task of cooking the lunch pizza. Now, I’m not going to say he did a good or bad job on his assignment, but the pizza did look a little burned. That might come back to haunt him in the boardroom.

Sidenote: Bren must have some sort of ESP or something. Not two minutes after Michael cooked up his fabulous pizza, Bren asks him to bring food for the group? Come on! What does Bren know that he’s not telling us? End sidenote

Does Erin really hate Michael? I vote no. It seems like she has that “third grade I like you so I’m going to steal your lunch and make fun of you until you notice me and try to kiss me under the jungle gym during recess when no one’s looking and then I’m going to tell all my friends and we’re going to giggle and point at you during art class while you’re playing with the finger paints” kind of vibe going on. Does she even talk about anything else during the interviews? I think she may be a potential stalker when this is all over and done with…

Sweet casting sign that Net Worth had. Maybe if their casting studio didn’t look very similar to a rape van, they could have gotten some people to fork over some monies to go inside. Instead of scaring them away, like Kathy Bates in Misery.

What are those footsteps you hear? That’s the jockey taking a victory lap on his favorite thoroughbred, Tana. That’s right, she’s won this round, and will be here next week, and the week after at least. Someone (me) needs to think of more horse jokes…stat!

Do Miss Universe and Miss USA ever get to take off those sashes and crowns? Do they have to wear them when they sleep? If they are “being intimate” with a fellow (or lady, as the case may be in my mind), do they have to wear them? I hope so. I know I wouldn’t want to go anywhere with them if they didn’t have that sash on. You probably get some pretty sweet discounts at Denny’s when you wear that get-up in there.

Tana has a husband? There’s a “horse cross-bred with human” joke just sitting there, waiting to be made. Unfortunately, I can’t think of it right now. I will bow my head in shame. I apologize. I’ve let you down.

There are two kinds of people in this world…those who wear bow-ties and those who don’t. I hate them.

Kendra flew under the radar again. I swear, in the boardroom was the first time she’s even spoken in the last three episodes. What is she going to do when she needs to be a leader? Hopefully it’s some sort of “mime contest” so she can win. Otherwise, I think she’s in trouble.

Was Michael hitting on Trump after he got fired? Why did he leave him his card? Will Trump ever call him? Can Michael have his own show? That way we can watch him walk around and eat pizza, while spouting nonsense. I like it. Maybe The WB can pick it up. And give him Damon Wayans as a sidekick. They could fight crime and eat pizza. God, I should be a TV exec.

My prediction for a winner after week 5: Still Kendra. Again, Audrey is smoking. I can’t stop talking about her. She’s pulling a Lou Gehrig. She’ll be in my thoughts for 2,130 straight nights.

Stare and creep...

People often say to me, “Brent, you’re quite the ladies man. What’s your secret?”

And I’ll often reply, “Dude, apparently you really don’t know me. And they’re called Altoids. You may want to look into them. But even though I’m not quite the suave gentleman I make myself out to be, I do have a surefire way to attract the ladies. What I’m about to tell you is top secret and the only reason I’m telling you is that the North Koreans have temporarily taken over my sense of secrecy and I’ll tell you anything for the next four minutes. That tie looks god awful on you and you smell like chum. Here’s the secret to get the ladies. It’s called the ‘Stare and Creep’.”

Then, they’ll often say, “The ‘Stare and Creep’? That sounds great! But can you explain it to me in a little more detail? I want to make sure I use it for good and not use it for evil, like Willie Ames does.”

I’ll then counter with, “I understand your concern Daniel-san. The ‘Stare and Creep’ is only meant for good, not evil. Here’s how the ‘Stare and Creep’ works. First, you find a lovely lady in the room. Someone you don’t know, but think is Kelly Kapowski hot. Then, you stare at them. And stare at them. And continue to stare at them until they get uncomfortable. Once it looks like they sat in a pile of wet gym towels, you know you are staring enough. Eventually, she will say to her friend ‘Why is that guy staring at me? It's really creepy’. And the ‘Stare and Creep’ has worked again! This is a perfectly acceptable mating ritual between a guy and a girl.”

They follow up with, “I see! That is brilliant! Like nuts and gum together, why hasn’t anyone thought of this before? Is there anyway to misuse the ‘Stare and Creep’?”

I will then fire back, “I’m so glad you asked! Yes, there are two ways to ruin a perfectly good ‘Stare and Creep’. They are…

1. You don't ‘Stare and Creep’ people you know. You just talk to them, like civilized people.
2. You don't ‘Stare and Creep’ a dude, unless you're doing it on purpose, to make him uncomfortable and increase your own enjoyment factor.

Those are the only two ways to ruin the ‘Stare and Creep’. Now, young grasshopper, I have filled your toolbox with the knowledge that very few are privy to. I hope you will not abuse the trust I have placed in you. Please use the ‘Stare and Creep’ to your advantage, but don’t taunt it. The ‘Stare and Creep’ is a witch about payback. You’ve been warned. Godspeed.

Dwarf Basketball...

Bashful (Long beard, long eye lashes) - He has excellent court vision and a 15 foot jumper you could set your watch to. A little embarrassed of how good he is, like Clyde Drexler. This is a guy you want on your team. He is more of a second banana as opposed to a leading force. Silent leader.

Doc (Short Beard, glasses) – He is your classic 'tweener. Too smart to be a power forward, but not quick enough to run the point. Outstanding work ethic. He's reminds me of a young Danny Manning, with Chris Sabo glasses. Hopefully he will continue to put in the work to take it to the next level.

Dopey (Beardless, big ears) - He was actually known as the "Michael Jordan" of the NDBL (National Dwarf Basketball League), so after his transition to the nest level, he should be on an even tier with Toni Kukoc! What more can you ask for?

Grumpy (Long Beard, scowl) - I liken his game to Vlade Divac. Is Vlade a Hall of Famer? I don't think so. So, there is no way I'm putting Grumpy in the Hall. But if you need someone to act like they never do anything wrong and it’s always someone else’s fault, Grumpy is your man.

Happy (Short beard, smile) - The typical team player; he makes the people around him better. Always willing to crack a joke to lighten the mood. A Mark Madsen-esque player, he's a good hustle guy. You’re never going to want to give him a max-contract, but you’ll want him in your line-up at crunch time.

Sleepy (Long beard, heavy eyelids) - Ahh...the Damon Stoudamire of the NDBL. Is he really sleepy, or should he be called “Munchies”? Either way, if he can keep up that 20-10-7 pace he's on, this is a Hall of Famer for sure, regardless of his off the court "activites".

Sneezy (Short beard, red nose) - Sneezy never gets off the bench. Too many mysterious aliments. He's like Terrell Brandon. All he's good for is to trade an expiring contract. Barely an NBA player. If I had my choice between Sneezy and Felton Spencer, I’m taking Felton. Enough said.

Sports InFlux II

Welcome to Sports InFlux, where we allow a guest columnist to present their view on a topic in sports. Today, we are welcoming Mr. Brodie Miller of the Scottsdale Sun-Herald. Mr. Miller is a Scorpio and he enjoys ice fishing, proper legislation, making fun of SBTB and praying the Gophers make a bowl game next year next year. Today’s topic is…

Do players (specifically Mark McGwire) who are purported to have done steroids, belong in the Hall of Fame?

Brent Nelson Mark McGwire Enthusiast

So, you're not going to be voting for Mark McGwire because of what he may or may not have done. That's fantastic. I understand that you said if more information comes out you're less inclined to vote for him. Which is great. If sloppy reasoning is a great reason to keep someone out of the Hall of Fame.

So, you wouldn't have voted for Don Drysdale, Gaylord Perry or Babe Ruth to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. And, while we're at it (since you want to blame the clean players fro this era) there would be no Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays or Ty Cobb in the Hall either? Who exactly would be in your Hall of Fame? We can't have anyone who had a competitive advantage over anyone else, can we? I believe some hall of famers used contacts and glasses to be able to see the ball. If they hadn't used those, they wouldn't be there. Get them out!

What about Tommy John surgery? I believe that anyone who had Tommy John surgery shouldn't be in the Hall, because players of yesteryear may have been better had they had the medicine we have today. Wait, why stop at Tommy John surgery? If anyone had any sort of medical procedure that was unavailable to players at the turn of the century, they shouldn't be allowed in.

Now, let's take it a step further. Even though there were no rules against steroids at the time in MLB (before you bring US regulations in this, there are plenty of "laws" that are broken everyday by everyone, so that's not an accurate argument) we're going to hang him for this? Well, let's say they make wearing batting gloves illegal this year, because it offers the batter too much advantage. Now, everyone who has ever worn a batting glove, though it was perfectly legal at the time, has all their records banned, because of what is illegal now. Does that make sense to you? That's essentially the argument you're making!

It's like on the episode of the Simpson's with Stampy, Bart's elephant. The prices were originally $1 to see the elephant and $2 to ride it. Then, Homer jacked up the prices to $100 to see it and $200 to ride it, when he found he couldn't afford to feed it.

Homer: Uh, Milhouse saw the elephant twice and rode him once, right?
Mrs. Van Houten: Yes, but we paid you $4.
Homer: Well, that was under our old price structure. Under our new price structure, your bill comes to a total of $700. Now, you've already paid me $4, so that's just $696 more that you owe me.
Mr. Van Houten: Get off our property.

Does that argument make sense to you? Are you the Homer Simpson of Sportswriters on this issue? I hope not. Because McGwire has garnered our respect and deserves to be enshrined in the Hall, regardless of his "cheating". Even if he did do steroids, they were not illegal and, even if they were, the Hall is filled with "cheaters".

Brodie Miller Scottsdale Sun-Herald

Since when does wearing contacts or glasses elevate your level of play....from what I understand they bring you on an even keel with those of us with perfect vision? I find it hard to believe you can compare fixing a "disability" to injecting yourself with steroids to elevate yourself above everyone else.

The bottom line is that you could argue this for years....there's no way to prove a negative, that somebody didn't do something.

Brent Nelson Mark McGwire Enthusiast

Are you saying wearing glasses doesn't elevate your level of play? If I go out there, with 20/600 vision, you can sure as hell bet that my level of play will be elevated when I put glasses on. Wearing glasses or contacts elevates your level of play based on where you would be "naturally".

There has never been an "even keel" of a playing field. If there were, everyone would have to be clones of each other. Some people will always have an advantage and some will always make an advantage for themselves. Everyone is different, has different abilities and different limits. If Giambi works out an hour more a day than Eric Davis, does that mean Giambi is getting an unfair advantage? If someone has a family, and they spend time with them, instead of in the cages, is that an unfair advantage? Should there be limits on how hard people can work, to maintain an "Even Keel"?

It's true that you can never prove that these players didn't do anything. This is why this whole “guilty until proven innocent” thing is a load of crap. This will be argued for years, but I really don't think anyone has made a good point to keep these players out of the Hall, if their stats merit inclusion.

Brodie Miller Scottsdale Sun-Herald

You cannot possibly compare wearing glasses to enhancing your level of play by shooting yourself up with steroids. There is a huge difference between the two. I did not mean that every player in the league was on an even keel, obviously they aren’t otherwise there would be no competition in baseball whatsoever, but using glasses arguably can bring players vision on an even keel with that of the rest of the players.

Regardless if using steroids back then was legal or not there still will be a shroud around the players in the league that were big home run hitters in that era no matter if you like it or not. Society can accept a player that uses acceptable artificial enhancements, such as glasses to enable him to correct his vision. They understand this. They realize that there is not any scientifically proven skill or work ethic a player can ever participate in to correct his vision. What they don’t understand is using a quick fix to help correct other physical shortcomings such as being weak by using an artificial substance. A player can improve his physical abilities by working out more and putting the time in the gym. Arguably he still won’t be even with everyone, but at least that player’s abilities are based on just that, his OWN abilities and not the amount of substance in a vial.

Your argument saying it wasn’t illegal at the time has no bearing at all on the Hall of Fame voting. The rules specifically state that “voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, INTEGRITY, sportsmanship, CHARACTER, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.” You can’t say that with all the allegations being thrown around that some reporters will question McGwire’s character and integrity. Reporter’s have every right to weigh such factors in their voting. Also you may argue that regardless, based on McGwire’s stat’s he should be in, but voting cannot be based simply on stats alone since the rules also state, “no automatic elections based on performances such as a batting average of .400 or more for one (1) year, pitching a perfect game or similar outstanding achievement shall be permitted.” So it may be sad that a player like McGwire is caught up in all this, but ultimately illegal or not such allegations may keep him out of the Hall.

Brent Nelson Mark McGwire Enthusiast

"What they don’t understand is using a quick fix to help correct other physical shortcomings such as being weak by using an artificial substance."

I didn't realize you spoke for all of society and what they can or cannot understand. That's interesting, because as part of society, I find steroid use perfectly acceptable. I guess we're part of two different societies.

"You cannot possibly compare wearing glasses to enhancing your level of playby shooting yourself up with steroids."

I already did. There are different reasons to do both, but they are similar. If one person has better vision than you, wouldn't you want as good of vision as him, if not better? If one person has better genetics than you, wouldn't you want to do what it takes to make your body chemistry as good as his, if not better?

"Regardless if using steroids back then was legal or not there still will be a shroud around the players in the league that were big home run hitters in that era no matter if you like it or not."

I agree, there is a cloud of distrust, but there shouldn't be. Is there distrust for the pitching records created during the 50's and 60's because of scuffing the ball? No. Why should this era be any different?

"Arguably he still won’t be even with everyone, but at least that player’s abilities are based on just that, his OWN abilities and not the amount of substance in a vial."

As with most people, you have a very simple view of how steroids work. Just injecting yourself does not in itself make you huge. Otherwise we'd have mammoth people walking all over the place. What it does do is give you a little extra boost and helps you recover quicker, which allows you to work out more. The same thing can be said of rest. People need to understand that you still have to have your fitness and nutrition in order to get the most out of steroids. They do help, I won't deny that. But they're not the end all; cure all that some people make them out to be. I don't see Hulk Hogan or HHH hitting 500 homers. But maybe my glasses aren't fitting right.

"The rules specifically state that “voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, INTEGRITY, sportsmanship, CHARACTER, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.'"

I understand that and made that argument. As Ken pointed out, integrity is a judgment call. As is character. You (and the rest of your society) can say McGwire had neither. I say he did. I look at steroids as an extension of gym work, along with post-workout shakes, meal replacements and the such. I think McGwire showed great reverence when he broke Maris's record and treated that situation fantastically. Again, these are strictly judgment calls, and I am of the opinion that steroids do not equal bad integrity and character. What about Drysdale, Ruth, and Perry? All Hall of Famers. Ruth used an illegal bat. Perry and Drysdale were spitball pitchers. Do you think they show integrity and character with those moves?

I agree with you that this could, in theory, keep McGwire out of the Hall, but that doesn't make it right. He has done nothing wrong (and we're going on the word of a jealous Jose Canseco). Yet, we're already tarnishing his image. It's sad and undeserved. McGwire is Hall of Fame material.

Brodie Miller Scottsdale Sun-Herald

You obviously misunderstood what I was saying. I was not speaking for all of society, but I do believe the MAJORITY of society would have that viewpoint. I was trying to just show you that there are other very valid viewpoints to the whole steroid thing.

I do believe that steroids are illegal now. I do believe that legislators make laws. I also believe that legislators are elected by the majority of society. I didn't see any law made prohibiting glasses. Therefore it is a pretty logical assumption that the majority of society does not view a steroid user and someone of high integrity and character in the same person.

The whole point with the vision thing is that you are not getting BETTER vision you are getting the SAME vision as everyone else. You totally didn’t even address that fact.

Maybe if I analogized my arguments to the level of Simpson’s or Saved by the Bell you would've understood………

Brent Nelson Mark McGwire Enthusiast

Maybe I did misunderstand, by taking direct quotes from you. Yes, yes, I see how that works.

I see there are other viewpoints and it's great that people have them. They're just flawed on this issue. You can argue (heaven for bid someone lighten it up with a reference to pop culture!) all you want, but it's not going to convince me.

"I do believe that steroids are illegal now."

Correct. We agree here.

"I do believe that legislators make laws."

Again, I have no argument here.

"I also believe that legislators are elected by the majority of society."

This is fascinating. It's like Civics class all over again!

"I didn't see any law made prohibiting glasses."

I don't think anyone ever made this claim, but whatever.

"Therefore it is a pretty logical assumption that the majority of society does not view a steroid user and someone of high integrity and character in the same person."

Wow. That is quite a leap there. OK, now let me make sure I follow exactly what you're saying, because I don't want to "take your words out of context". You're saying that...

a) The people elect the legislators
b) The legislators then make the laws
c) The majority of people then agree with these laws
d) If you break these laws, you do not have high integrity and character.

This seems to be the logic and argument you're making. This is fine. But I sure see a hell of a lot of people driving (over the speed limit, set by those trusty legislators) who have low integrity and no character. For shame. I hope the all get smitten to hell for breaking that law that the people I elected made! For shame! I can hardly be in the same room as those bastards! They make me want to throw up!!

"The whole point with the vision thing is that you are not getting BETTER vision you are getting the SAME vision as everyone else. You totally didn’t even address that fact."

Prove it. My vision with contacts is 20/15. Normal vision is 20/20. My vision without contacts is 20/600. Contacts can correct vision up to 20/10. How is that not better? But regardless of that fact, the point is that you're taking something that doesn't occur naturally and using it to your advantage, whether it's to make yourself even with people or push yourself over the top. That point is irrelevant.

It's like that episode of Saved by the Bell, when Jessie gets addicted to caffeine pills. She was using them so she could get better grades than the other kids, so she could get into a better college. Is that cheating? Should Harvard not let her in, because she wasn't trying to use the pills to stay awake long enough to get the same grades as the other kids, she was using them to stay awake longer and study better?

Is it "natural"?

Is it natural to go to the gym at 5 in the morning to lift weights?

Is it natural to take cortisone shots just to stop the pain of walking?

Is it natural to run so hard and fast that you throw up?

Is it natural to put plastic on your eyes so you can see?

Is it natural to take protein in supplement form?

Is it natural to take vitamins in capsule form?

Is it natural to take a ligament from one arm and use it to fix the other arm?

Is it natural to suture the skin on the sides of a tendon down to the deep tissue under it, thus creating an artificial sheath to prevent the tendon from snapping against the bone?

Is it natural to wear gloves to protect your hands?

Is it natural to see how much weight you can strap on your back and lift it?

Is it natural to run wind sprints with a parachute off your back?

Is it natural to have your blood taken to diagnose what supplements will help you personally?

Is it natural to have surgery to heal a broken bone?